Hello Everyone

[Gattaca]

Hello Daniel, Stretch, nsk, KOVKID & PJK

I thought I would post some brief questions about the concept on this thread before putting them onto the main board. They are in essence the nitty gritty of the business idea.

- Who would you prefer to fit between Howden, Magnet Trade or Wren?
- Would you agree to a supply and fit with no upfront payments if you were 100% guaranteed to be paid on completion?
- Could you do full strip out, supply, fit cabinets/worktops/sink/appliances/flooring/splashbacks, offer full corgi/gasafe cert's within 14 days, assuming you had already visited site and full choices were agreed?
- If an average contract price was approx £6,000 would £1,200 for fitting and between £250-£500 margin on supply be enough to attract the very best in the business?

Really happy to hear any of your thoughts, I think I have alot of the answers already but ready for any other points of view

Cheers

Phill

1. Not keen on any of these as the 14 day fit time may get go over
2. Not a chance mate. You buy it from me then I may fit it so I'm dealing with you not a customer who hasn't bought the property yet. Do you mean completion of the job or the sale
3. 14 day would be a great fit time.
4. Nope

Sorry

Hi PJK,

Appreciate your Clints
Hopefully I can offer some reason behind my questions and some answers to your points.

1. The suppliers suggested have national presence and can supply from stock. Other suppliers I spoke to had between 6 & 12 weeks lead times. Because the concept is different to the 'normal' way of buying a kitchen and is involved with a proceeding house sale I have can only realistically offer stock suppliers.

2. I will negate any potential 'risk' for the fitter by only giving the order to actually fit out when the buyer has exchanged contracts on the property. My contract with the house seller would agree the deduction of the whole contract cost from house sale proceeds OR from the exchange deposit monies. The contract also stipulates the 14 day period between exchange of contracts and completion. This is the timeframe for the actual fit-out but would hope it could be competed quicker.

Related to this 14 day timeframe it is not a fixed time on each job. If a partner fitter visit site for quote purposes and see a problem that would mean the projected fit out date would need to be 3 weeks, I can negotiate this into the sales contract.

3. think we agree on this.

4. I am way off with my pricing as other posts have pointed out. I am reviewing this. It is vital to the concept's success that I offer a price which attracts high quality fitters. My initial projections were a bit "Champagne Tastes & Beer Money", I can fix this.


Thanks you very much for replying to my questions.

Regards

Phill

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Hi phil
Just +1 with the lads above.
I would never supply and fit and wait for payment, why would you think this way.? You only need an issue which leads to "..... Your not getting paid until you change it conversation.

The price changes on every fit.
Your best getting a fitter local to you and give him 3-5 different size plans and ask him to price them.

You have to keep the fitter happy, ie price or he will drop you. Then you are left with finding another good fitter like the one you just pissed off. Keeping him happy is the major key to your good idea working.

Hello Prem.

A cornerstone of the idea is that Kitchen Included take ALL the risk for payment from our fitting partners. I am looking to offer a 100% guarantee that the fitter will be paid within 7 days of completion of the job. I know this is a departure from the norm but the way payment is structured is different also. The person actually paying us both is the house seller who has contracted with Kitchen Included to have the agreed price deducted from house sale proceeds. Because of this contract I am more than happy to stand as 100% guarantor on every job.

Your next suggestion is fabulous. I was initially looking to offer a fixed price matrix based on SqM of Kitchen but your suggestion is much better. The other advantage is the 95% of houses on the market already have a floorplan and measurements in the public domain ( Rightmove/Zoopla) so I could give indicative costs subject to the fitters local survey.

Your final point repeats the mantra that anybody connected to the industry has told me
-Keep the fitter happy, pay them properly and communicate clearly with all involved-

I am trying my hardest to make sure I can come up with an offer to appeal to fitters around the UK and the forum has given a huge help in fine tuning this.

Your reply has been very useful, Thanks

Phill

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- Who would you prefer to fit between Howden, Magnet Trade or Wren?
- Would you agree to a supply and fit with no upfront payments if you were 100% guaranteed to be paid on completion?
- Could you do full strip out, supply, fit cabinets/worktops/sink/appliances/flooring/splashbacks, offer full corgi/gasafe cert's within 14 days, assuming you had already visited site and full choices were agreed?
- If an average contract price was approx £6,000 would £1,200 for fitting and between £250-£500 margin on supply be enough to attract the very best in the business?

I think you're being a little optimistic and perhaps even unrealistic here. No kitchen fitter that I know of would work 14 days for £1200, or that's the way I've read it. That's about £85 a day!!

Most fitters earn £150 - £200 a day so that equates to £2,100 to £2,800 plus another £200 - £300 for your gas and electrical certificates and then all the material costs incurred....another £300 - £400. So, £3,500 before you even start isn't going to leave much change for a kitchen unless it's one of Vance Miller's.

To answer your points:

- None of them

- No way. Money upfront for materials and part payment for kitchen then balance on completion. Nobody would supply a kitchen at trade price anyway.

- Yes, but not always

- Absolutely not. You might get a Pole to work for that but not an independent fitter with all the running costs of a business.

Sorry...

Also, how would this work logistically? Would you refit the kitchen with the previous occupant still living there? I can't imagine how anyone would want to have a load of tradesmen running through their house while they're trying to get packed. And what if they liked the new kitchen and decided not to move after all?

Or do you wait until they move out and fit before the new owner arrives? Most people will be in a chain and will have nowhere to go in the meantime.

A nice idea in principle but a lot of potential pitfalls.

Hiya Stretch,

Many thanks for your replies. You were right about the forum! Great people giving me the unvarnished truth with both barrels - Love it!.

I will try and reply to some of your points,

The 14 day timeframe is really my attempt to gauge an adequate window to do 'most' jobs with time to spare. If the job means you could be in and out with 5 or 6 days that works great. I would want to fix 14 day as a minimum timeframe but could negotiate a long fit-out time should the job reuqire it. I am hoping an experienced fitter would tell me this kind of detail on the costing inspection. It is also one of the unique parts of the offer "a new kitchen BEFORE you move in" so I wnated all parties to have time to complete their work totally.

RE: Suppliers, I have had similar feedback that the suggested suppliers are not people's favorites. My reason for choosing them is due to their ability to supply form stock and national network, Any other suggestions on other suppliers who can supply in this lead time would be welcome.


RE Money upfront - Not surprised I got the most feedback on this and I need to explain this in further detail. The reason I can offer a 100% guarantee is that nothing is ordered before the buyer has exchanged contracts and legally committed to purchasing the house and has made ALL their choices relating to the new kitchen. I would pre empt the choices with the supplying branch 1 week before the projected fit start to ensure everything is in stock. Because the goods are bought on the individual fitters account I am hoping more margin can be offered and have had a brilliant suggestion from a previous poster that they should price the early in the process so the fitter is happy with the costs involved.
I sadly cannot afford to buy the kitchens myself cash, and I am sure a start up company won't get a credit line for more than 3/4 kitchens at a time with a pretty terrible discount. I aim aiming to do 25 - 30 fits a month in the first year.

I have been made aware that I have missed the fitting costs by a mile - will review. Poles are lovely people but I want to get get experienced local fitters around the country and need to pay property

With your last point, what we are offering is the chance to improve the chances of someone selling a house which has a crap kitchen. It is quite evident of your house has a poor kitchen but a real risk to change it yourself hoping a buyer will like ( no accounting for taste Etc), so for the hassle of trades running about in the last 2 weeks of owning the property Versus selling at an even bigger discount I now it''s a price worth paying. The direction of the initial marketing is at empty and probate properties which will see most benefit from the concept anyway

Final point - What if they love the Kitchen and want to stay - YIPPEE! Stretch you have got it!! This why this concept really excites me -
You are selling a house with a crap kitchen - You choose to offer a Kitchen included package - You find a new house to move to -........It's kitchen is not as nice as the ones that the Kitchen Included offer.....MMM what shall I do?........



Thanks again for the welcome to the forum I hope more questions come thick and fast