Hello Everyone

[andy5405]

I like the concept and you seem to have most points covered but somehow it doesn't feel like a great idea to me. Here's a few thoughts.

1. I would guess that the biggest problem would be finding enough decent fitters but that would apply to any business model.

2. The contract is with the seller and this is a flaw IMO. They aren't going to care if the fit is a bit ropey as they are moving out and the house is sold so that's all they will be worried about.

3. It's hard to decide what you want in a new kitchen unless you have lived in the house. Could the idea be turned on it's head and the fit be carried out after the buyers have moved in. It could be priced between exchange and completion and your company would then hold the money to carry out a kitchen fit once the buyers have moved in. It would turn a logistical nightmare into something more like falling off a log.

[Gattaca]

I like the concept and you seem to have most points covered but somehow it doesn't feel like a great idea to me. Here's a few thoughts.

1. I would guess that the biggest problem would be finding enough decent fitters but that would apply to any business model.

2. The contract is with the seller and this is a flaw IMO. They aren't going to care if the fit is a bit ropey as they are moving out and the house is sold so that's all they will be worried about.

3. It's hard to decide what you want in a new kitchen unless you have lived in the house. Could the idea be turned on it's head and the fit be carried out after the buyers have moved in. It could be priced between exchange and completion and your company would then hold the money to carry out a kitchen fit once the buyers have moved in. It would turn a logistical nightmare into something more like falling off a log.

Hello Andy,

Thanks for your Clints. I'll try and answer each point

1. Finding fitters (and decent ones at that!) is the critical factor for the business to succeed or fail. I have approached around 20 fitters in different parts of the country and 8 of these would be willing to operate on the terms I have outlined. I can understand that what I am proposing is a different way of operating and will not be attractive to everyone.

2. You are correct that the seller's ONLY concern is selling the house. The fallout from a bad fit will come back to me and my company reputation. This is why I am spending so much time researching appropriate timescales, suppliers and most importantly fitting partners who can fulfill these parameters. The contract is with the seller because they have the 'equity' to spend, house buyers cash is tied up in the mortgage deposit.

3. This is a really good idea. I have looked into this type of offer by way of an 'escrow' account (whereby we hold cash in separate account until fit). The problems I encounter with this approach come from the mortgage companies & solicitors. The mortgage companies have strict rules on 'cash' incentives when buying & selling a house. Having the work completed before the buyer completes the sale are unaffected by these guidelines and are simply written into the sale contract ( the spec sheet becomes part of the fixtures and fitting part of the house sale contract)

The benefits of the offer to the parties involved really comes down to:

HOUSE SELLER - Offers their house for sale to include a Kitchen of the buyers choice : Does not waste cash on a kitchen upgrade a buyer may not like : Improves the chance of getting a buyer without spending anything until successfully sold.

HOUSE BUYER - Can get a MUCH better, brand new kitchen & appliances of their choice, for ZERO cost : All work done BEFORE they move in : They can choose ANY house to include our Kitchen Included package on.

Thanks again for your input, like the rest of the guys on the forum you have been very generous with your time & feedback, much appreciated

Cheers

Phill

[andy5405]

OK so that effectively rules out a fit after completion. I think the reason that it sounds like a potentially flawed idea to me is the possible complex logistics. You will be complicating an already stressful time for the buyer and seller albeit with huge benefits to offset that extra hassle. Most of all you will be dealing with solicitors and estate agents all the time. We're all straight talking guys on here and would probably rather drink a cup of cold sick than immerse ourselves fully in their world. It will obviously colour our judgement. You already have that experience so it won't be a hassle to you.

It comes back to the fitters as many have pointed out. Everyone talks a great story in this industry but very few really deliver. It isn't actually a problem that is specific to your idea as it would apply to any business model doing any type of work in domestic properties.

Your preferred supplier will definitely affect the quality of fitters you attract. Most of us on here wouldn't touch Howdens and we're also reluctant to reveal who are suppliers are as we consider that information to be a trade secret. That said I think Howdens would be the best bet to kick off this idea. They're not perfect but they do have the national presence with local delivery that you require. Stock availability varies enormously from branch to branch and is down to the individual management teams. They do have the advantage that customers can call into a local branch to have a look at the units and doors that gives a warm feeling.

I personally wouldn't touch Howdens for my own business and I doubt many others would on here either. It's not because they are terribly bad at anything, they are after all the biggest kitchen seller in the UK. It's that we have all found considerably better alternatives to suit our business models which are very different to yours. I would cut your teeth with Howdens and as you get a better knowledge of the industry look for possible alternatives.

Re Magnets I wouldn't even go there, IMHO they are barking mad and shite.

The biggest problem I foresee is that you will be a startup business offering payment at the end of the job. Once you have a good reputation that may not be a problem but I wouldn't touch you with a barge pole and I doubt any good fitters would. We simply don't need to take the risk and we all know that well over 90% of new businesses fail in the 1st year.

The key question here is what makes you so special that you are one of the 10%. We all are as we are here talking about our established businesses. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh as it isn't meant to be but it will probably be the biggest problem you face. Talk is cheap and you will need something much more tangible if you are going to attract the right people.

[Gattaca]

HI Andy,

Thanks again for some proper 'meaty' discussion.

All of my research and discussions with suppliers keep me circling back to Howdens & Magnet purely on stock supply and national presence basis. Your right about being able to walk in to a showroom (however small!) and let the buyer touch & feel the choices, this really helps. Many (read ALL) other posters would not choose Howdens for their own business, which I respect.

Dealing with the solicitors and estate agents is my area of expertise and know this market very well. In other large projects I have been involved in I have seen the most success in 'clearing' the path for the trades to come and do their jobs. get in and get out. The fitter would only ever have to deal with the buyer face to face, as they would in any other transaction.

Relating to getting quality fitters who would accept the different terms, mainly being paid post completion I realise this is my biggest challenge. I am looking at paying for the first few kitchens up front myself to build a relationship which as you rightly point out would enhance my reputation. But I am keen to scale the business steadily, and this would not be possible even if I had just 5 to 10 deals proceeding at once as it would tie up between 40-60k in cash.

With help from many on this forum and my own contacts I am getting to a real workable offer for Fitters, House Sellers & Buyers.

It's not easy, But I am going to make it work.

Thanks again for you time

Phill

[PREM]

what sore of reasearch have you done into the fitters you are going to use. there are pleanty of fitters who would say yes to your idea as you may potentially give them work.

its a good idea paying them up front or i would half on start and the rest on comp.

IT is essential you see there work and make sure its theirs, lots of fitters have made there way into the sheds showing other peoples work, only to be found out 2 or 3 fits in when they have caused no end of problems and distress.

[N8rbos]

If the time frame for exchange of contracts is @ 14 days,until you know the actual day and the contracts signed, what does the fitter do? Will he already of booked this job in ? If the contract dosen't go ahead he has no work ,so who pays for 2weeks lost work? Or will you hope to have fitters. Who drop everything to do your jobs? Most fitters will be booked up for weeks in advance on definite jobs with deposits.

[bbcentre]

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[PJK]

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[Stretch]

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Don't worry...it shall be suitably edited...