Electrics Confusion

[StanageDave]

Have been talking to a potential employer about fitting for them. They said we'd be expected to do everything except gas connection. Does anyone have any up to date info on what a kitchen fitter is and isn't allowed to do regarding electrical connections. It strikes me that this is something of a grey area.

[jonny round boy]

It is a very grey area - I've been looking into it recently with a view to doing my own electrics.

Kitchens are no longer considered a 'special area', and as such fall outside the scope of Part P, so what you can do in a kitchen now is greater than before.

You can replace/connect 'like-for-like' items, so if you remove an oven or hob and fit a new one into the same connection point, you're fine.

You can now change or add to existing circuits, so add additional sockets, spurs, lights etc. HOWEVER the rules are very ambiguous about the level of testing required for such additions.

What you definitely cannot do is add any new circuits, i.e. connections to the CU.

I've looked into getting myself certified (for electrics, before anyone Clints!) and to do so you'd need to do the 17th edition course (price varies from £170-£500 depending on style/delivery of the course), then the domestic installers course (£400-£500), then pay one of the schemes around £500/year, and spend £500-£1000 on test equipment and have it calibrated every year

Oh, and as an aside, the rules on CU's are changing on 1st January - as of that date, any new CU installed (either as a replacement, or an additional one) must be in a fireproof enclosure, so either a metal CU, or a plastic one inside a metal box.

[Evostance]

It is a very grey area - I've been looking into it recently with a view to doing my own electrics.

Kitchens are no longer considered a 'special area', and as such fall outside the scope of Part P, so what you can do in a kitchen now is greater than before.

You can replace/connect 'like-for-like' items, so if you remove an oven or hob and fit a new one into the same connection point, you're fine.

You can now change or add to existing circuits, so add additional sockets, spurs, lights etc. HOWEVER the rules are very ambiguous about the level of testing required for such additions.

What you definitely cannot do is add any new circuits, i.e. connections to the CU.

I've looked into getting myself certified (for electrics, before anyone Clints!) and to do so you'd need to do the 17th edition course (price varies from £170-£500 depending on style/delivery of the course), then the domestic installers course (£400-£500), then pay one of the schemes around £500/year, and spend £500-£1000 on test equipment and have it calibrated every year

Oh, and as an aside, the rules on CU's are changing on 1st January - as of that date, any new CU installed (either as a replacement, or an additional one) must be in a fireproof enclosure, so either a metal CU, or a plastic one inside a metal box.

I asked the council about this, and they said that any electrical work in the kitchen falls inside Part P, even if your just changing the existing configuration.
This matches what our electricians said and are going to provide a Part P certificate.

On my building notice, I said there will be no change to the circuits to the CU, but they still need the certificate for sign off

[andy5405]

I had a good chat with my sparks today and he said that the only thing that has changed is work in a kitchen is no longer notifiable, i.e he doesn't have to login online and fill in all the details any more. He does still have to produce all the relevant paper documentation. I don't know what's right or wrong but electrical regs are always a good topic for a healthy debate. What do out resident sparks say?

[jonny round boy]

Like I said, it's confusing!

I probably didn't help with my terminology - when I said 'falls outside the scope of part P' what I should have said is that it is no longer notifiable (in England only; kitchens are still considered to be 'special areas' in Wales. God knows what the rules are in Scotland!).

The whole issue of exactly what paperwork is required is, like the testing, clear as mud.

[owen]

Do what you want, just don't blow anything up and you'll be fine

[PREM]

It use to be kitchens and outside were special locations. now like Andy and Jonny have said, alter an existing circuit, its not notifiable but will have to fill in a minor works form (1 sheet) Changing like for like with no extending or reduction of a cable nothing is required. As soon an you go back to the consumer and add a circuit or change and mcb to a RCBO, its notifiable and a full installation cert. Even if you only install 10mm bonding its notifiable.
Ive been part P since it came out now just putting my son through it when we find the time to fit the course in.

[emo_luke]

Is there any option for you to sub sparks in? Depends how money hungry the sparks are, mine like to eat money for breakfast, lunch, dinner and supper $$$$$$

[StanageDave]

It is a very grey area - I've been looking into it recently with a view to doing my own electrics.

Kitchens are no longer considered a 'special area', and as such fall outside the scope of Part P, so what you can do in a kitchen now is greater than before.

You can replace/connect 'like-for-like' items, so if you remove an oven or hob and fit a new one into the same connection point, you're fine.

You can now change or add to existing circuits, so add additional sockets, spurs, lights etc. HOWEVER the rules are very ambiguous about the level of testing required for such additions.

What you definitely cannot do is add any new circuits, i.e. connections to the CU.

I've looked into getting myself certified (for electrics, before anyone Clints!) and to do so you'd need to do the 17th edition course (price varies from £170-£500 depending on style/delivery of the course), then the domestic installers course (£400-£500), then pay one of the schemes around £500/year, and spend £500-£1000 on test equipment and have it calibrated every year

Oh, and as an aside, the rules on CU's are changing on 1st January - as of that date, any new CU installed (either as a replacement, or an additional one) must be in a fireproof enclosure, so either a metal CU, or a plastic one inside a metal box.

Thanks for the info. My mate did his Part P a few years ago but eventually decided it wasn't worth his while paying into a scheme because most of the jobs he did weren't 'notifiable'. My understanding was that changing sockets/fittings and appliances like for like was allowed in a kitchen and you didn't need part P or any paperwork for that, but to add a new spur you'd need to either be a member of a scheme like NICEIC, or notify building control and pay for their tame sparky to come out and check the work - a very expensive proposition indeed I should imagine.

I wasn't aware of the change to consumer units. Worth knowing, I was thinking of having mine at home updated at some point.

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Is there any option for you to sub sparks in? Depends how money hungry the sparks are, mine like to eat money for breakfast, lunch, dinner and supper $$$$$$

I don't want to appear too cynical, but I sometimes suspect that some sparks (not yours I'm sure!) exaggerate the scope of part P to drum up more business.

Soon after Part P came in, I allowed my other half to insist on getting an electrician in to fit a new light fitting in our bathroom. After he'd charged me 50 quid for the privilege of 10 minutes work and was clearing away his screwdriver he said 'to be honest mate, you could have done this yourself' he then went on to tell me that under the new rules I could still install a new electric shower as long as it was 'like for like' and didn't need any new wiring. Expensive advice!