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full payment up front - Guest - 13-10-2010
Hi,
Have just googled across this site, hope someone can help.
I have ordered a £11,000 kitchen, i signed an order form and placed a 20% deposit. I phoned today to arrange a fitting date and was told that when the kitchen is delivered I must pay in full - before fitting!
I voiced my concerns and surprise and was pointed to the long list of terms and conditions on the back of my signed order.
They are a small local business, well established and seemed very friendly, but then they would. I am just shocked at such sharp practice, particularly as when i was chatting to the salesman in the showroom I criticised another local well known competitor who fitted my last kitchen a few years ago and who I foolishly paid in full before they finished and struggled to get the snagging jobs completed. He agreed and still didn't tell me before signing!
Is this normal in the kitchen industry, am I being paranoid?
Any input would be much appreciated, I am now wondering what kind of business feels the need to do this.
Many thanks.
RE: full payment up front - jonny round boy - 13-10-2010
Generally, the only places that insist on full payment upfront are large organisations like B&Q, Wickes, etc.
Small, local companies generally take staged payments. When I was self-employed, I took a 25% deposit, 50% just before delivery, and then 25% once the job was complete. The company I'm now working for take 30/60/10%.
There are 2 sides to this - you don't want to pay upfront in case they don't come through; they want full payment so you can't refuse to pay once the kitchen is in.
I would explain to them that due to your previous experience, you are unhappy to pay in full, and ask if it would be OK to hold back some monies until completion. You could ask for 25%, but they might think that's too much, in which case haggle with them, but don't go below 10%.
If they say they are unhappy with that, ask why. Obviously, they don't want to risk you not paying up, so offer to pay the balance into an escrow account. This means the money is held by the bank, and they can see that it's there. They just can't get it until you release it (which gives you leverage), but you can't take it back either (which gives them reassurance that they will get the money in the end. Most banks offer escrow accounts, but I'm not sure what the fees are thesedays.
If they simply state the T&Cs, explain that you weren't given time to read them all, and that legally if the T&Cs are too long and in a very small print, they aren't legally enforcible anyway. Any reasonable company should understand your position, and allow you to hold some back even if it's not their standard practice.
Make sure BTW when doing all this that you're speaking to the organ grinder, not a monkey
Hope that all helps!!!
RE: full payment up front - Edecko - 13-10-2010
All the shops I know get paid in full for the kitchen on delivery if not before. I prefer to wait to the end before I am paid for the fit, but if it is waved in front of me I will take it.
RE: full payment up front - jonny round boy - 13-10-2010
Fair enough. I guess my experience is limited.
If I were a customer buying a kitchen though, I wouldn't want to pay 11 grand upfront...
RE: full payment up front - Edecko - 13-10-2010
You posted while I was writing my long reply. LOL
I should clarify to the OP that these are well established suppliers with great reputations.
If I did not trust the shop enough to give them the money I wouldn't be buying a kitchen off them in the first place.
J's escrow idea is good , I used to do this on big building jobs.
RE: full payment up front - big-all - 14-10-2010
you must always hold 10% back till the end off the job
this is a mutual trust situation where every one must trust and have a bit off give and take
a good tradsman will know its 97% with odd teething the client will be happy and pay the ballance when he reaches 99% correct
every one happy
RE: full payment up front - andy5405 - 14-10-2010
I take full payment up front for the actual kitchen as I pay for it up front myself. All the installation costs are paid for after the kitchen has been fitted.
RE: full payment up front - Majjie - 14-10-2010
I always think that paying for the actual kitchen, when it's delivered and in your house, is fair enough ... as Andy says ... but that the fitting cost shouldn't be paid until after the kitchen is fitted.
If the fitting cost isn't spelled out separately, then 10% would be about the minimum I'd go for, as a final payment.
I know a few kitchen companies who will simply take the kitchen away again, if they don't get payment for the actual goods being delivered. We all know there are some Rogue Traders out there ... but unfortunately there are some Rogue Customers too ... who want to be tricky and get extra money off their kitchen. It's much more difficult for them to do that to the guy who's actually there, working in their house, than it is to knock a bit off the large outstanding balance owed to the slightly distant kitchen company.
I'm sure the Guest OP isn't one of these people - but they do exist.
Majjie
RE: full payment up front - marc1106 - 14-10-2010
personally i do 50% of total project cost upfront then 25% when every thing is funtional then the final 25% on total and satisfactory completion! personally id be lookng at holding 10% minimum as Majjie says untill you are happy with the result! most companys will not risk losing an £11000 turnover, for the sake of the profit from it!
